Comments on: There Is No End State When Transitioning to Agile

By: funkybrain » Ken Schwaber on ScrumBut

funkybrain » Ken Schwaber on ScrumBut — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:39:26 +0000

[...] Whilst on the subject of scrum, there’s another important idea that needs to be driven home to organizations that take on the scrum challenge: is is that there is no end state when transitioning to agile. [...]

By: What’s not optional, Part I+II « OlafLewitz

What’s not optional, Part I+II « OlafLewitz — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:11:09 +0000

[...] with that, you are on your way to succeeding with agile.” Which is the title of the book. By Mike Cohn. Love [...]

By: Mike Cohn

Mike Cohn — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:11:00 +0000

Hi Mark–
Yes, it is a common argument that “we should focus on becoming more agile.” I put that in the same vein as I shouldn’t focus on eating more vegetables, I should just focus on being more healthy. Eating more veggies is a leading indicator of being healthy (at least eating more of the disgusting things than I eat is).

In the Succeeding with Agile book I do stress that while being agile is not the ultimate goal, it is a good leading indicator of things that will lead to success at what we really want.

Thanks for your comments.

By: Mark Needham

Mark Needham — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:37:17 +0000

Interesting post.

In my current thinking not only is there no end state but I’m not really convinced that aspiring to be ‘agile’ is a really useful goal to be aiming for in the first place even though I’m coming across that idea quite frequently.

I think it’s useful to remember that our goal is to try and build software quickly and with the level of quality that satisfies our customer and helps them solve their problems.

Agile provides a lot of ideas around how we can do this but just aiming to become proficient at the ideas it suggests isn’t enough.

We want to be looking to continously improve our feedback cycles, get better at solving problems in our given domain and so on. Maybe that’s me just describing some of the ideas of lean though!

By: Mike Cohn

Mike Cohn — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:15:07 +0000

Hi Sameh-- You'll see in both some upcoming posts and in my Succeeding with Agile book itself that I completely agree that the transition process needs to be agile itself.

By: Sameh

Sameh — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:08:44 +0000

I suggest that the transition process should be Agile by itself. It is like new product development which we figure what we want as we iterate. Assessment of one iteration is the driver for what to do in the next. I think Agile serves to make the organization acknowledge that we can not commit on what we deliver from up-front and at what cost. In traditional project management, it’s bold to say that. We rather uncover value as we proceed. I think this applies to the transition process.

By: Mike Cohn

Mike Cohn — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:17:26 +0000

Thanks everyone for the comments on this one today. I wish I could be in Ottawa for the Don’t Do Agile meeting.

I like that exercise, Russell. I’ve seen Lyssa Adkins do something nearly identical in her upcoming book on coaching.

The so-called Nokia Test has always bothered me. I suspect it bothers many at Nokia, too, since they aren’t the ones to have named it after themselves. It’s too simplistic to mean much.

I hadn’t thought of irony, Robert, of the willingness to accept a vague mission statement (yuk) while insisting on a Gantt chart for how to adopt agile.

Thanks for reading and commenting. I appreciate it.

By: Robert Dempsey

Robert Dempsey — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:12:44 +0000

Great post Mike. It’s amazing that companies will write vague and verbose mission statements and not have detailed plans to attain those “goals,” yet they want a specific process of moving to, or rather adding agile in to their existing processes. As you say, an Agile transition is different for many companies, and looks more like a roadmap with many potential ways one could go. I hope people keep this in mind as they become more Agile.

By: Phil Green

Phil Green — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:59:44 +0000

I like the tag line “provoke and observe”!

Understanding what it means to “be agile” and intelligently applying the knowledge to your context is so important.

Our meetup this week at Agile Ottawa is titled “Don’t Do Agile” http://agileottawa.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/dont-do-agile/

Good post http://mitchlacey.com/Blog/Scrum-for-Managers.html about how managers role includes helping team understand agile principles and values.

thanks
Phil

By: Paul Boos

Paul Boos — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:45:02 +0000

Great post! I couldn’t agree more and htis is also the thought processes (from my readings) about the Toyota Production System. You define a better state and you move form your current state to the better state. You may not achieve that fully or you may; regardless there will be a new and better state to try and move to when you get as far along as you can.

Thanks re-emphasizing that the change should be continual.

Paul