Comments on: A Requirements Challenge http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge Succeeding With Agile® Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:06:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mike Cohn http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-250278 Mike Cohn Wed, 10 Aug 2011 14:57:31 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-250278 Hi Santanu-- You'd have to ask that question of Kai Gilb. His site is at www.gilb.com. I'm not sure he's monitoring the discussion here. There is all sorts of good information on his site. Hi Santanu–
You’d have to ask that question of Kai Gilb. His site is at http://www.gilb.com. I’m not sure he’s monitoring the discussion here. There is all sorts of good information on his site.

]]> By: Santanu http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-250153 Santanu Wed, 10 Aug 2011 08:31:42 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-250153 Well this is a very old thread but of great interest for people like me who is reading this first time. :) So don't blame me why I am posting on such a old thread. I am curious how the Scrum Team estimated the effort as mentioned below by Kai Gilb... Thanks & Regards, Santanu "Real case example: One of the projects I’m working on today as a coach, we have a large web portal with lots of products and services delivered by a set of service providers. We have written up all the improvements (qualities) they expect to the web portal in the improved version we are creating. One such quality is the time to find the correct product/service. Today it takes about 1-2 min. We gave the Scrum team that is doing the sw development the creative challenge to come up with some alternative ideas for how it can be brought down to about 15 sec. They came up with 12 such ideas, and we (management) have selected (with them) 2 of them that they are working on implementing right now. At the end of the sprints we will measure how much faster it is to find the products/services, and keep at it until we reach the goal." Well this is a very old thread but of great interest for people like me who is reading this first time. :) So don’t blame me why I am posting on such a old thread.

I am curious how the Scrum Team estimated the effort as mentioned below by Kai Gilb…

Thanks & Regards,
Santanu

“Real case example:
One of the projects I’m working on today as a coach, we have a large web portal with lots of products and services delivered by a set of service providers. We have written up all the improvements (qualities) they expect to the web portal in the improved version we are creating. One such quality is the time to find the correct product/service. Today it takes about 1-2 min. We gave the Scrum team that is doing the sw development the creative challenge to come up with some alternative ideas for how it can be brought down to about 15 sec. They came up with 12 such ideas, and we (management) have selected (with them) 2 of them that they are working on implementing right now. At the end of the sprints we will measure how much faster it is to find the products/services, and keep at it until we reach the goal.”

]]> By: Michael Bannen http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-37346 Michael Bannen Thu, 23 Apr 2009 05:30:55 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-37346 Another quesiton to consider: What can you "not" do (avoid doing), that you used to have to do with paper? Another quesiton to consider:
What can you “not” do (avoid doing), that you used to have to do with paper?

]]> By: Michael Bannen http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-37345 Michael Bannen Thu, 23 Apr 2009 05:29:13 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-37345 Macros. In general, tools are not about doing new things ("there is nothing new under the sun" - Ecclessiastes) But about doing things better, faster. They enable US to do things We couldn't do before. Or enabling more people to do things only a few could do. We can see rocks with our eyes, but with telescopes WE can see planets. When installment payments were 'invented' for large farm equipment, it meant more farmers could buy larger equipment (since they paid it over time rather than all at once), and produce more crops. Anyhow, on the couldn't do with paper list. 1) Macros: 2) Collaborate remotely (e.g., netmeeting, WebEx, EtherPad). 3) Hyperlinks 4) Zoom 5) Store 100,000 pages on a device the size of a pack of gum Macros.

In general, tools are not about doing new things (“there is nothing new under the sun” – Ecclessiastes)

But about doing things better, faster. They enable US to do things We couldn’t do before. Or enabling more people to do things only a few could do.

We can see rocks with our eyes, but with telescopes WE can see planets.

When installment payments were ‘invented’ for large farm equipment, it meant more farmers could buy larger equipment (since they paid it over time rather than all at once), and produce more crops.

Anyhow, on the couldn’t do with paper list.

1) Macros:
2) Collaborate remotely (e.g., netmeeting, WebEx, EtherPad).
3) Hyperlinks
4) Zoom
5) Store 100,000 pages on a device the size of a pack of gum

]]> By: Amber http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-35849 Amber Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:08:07 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-35849 Ultimately I totally get where they're coming from. It makes complete sense from the standpoint of most software coming from a "we're already doing this, let's do it better" approach. BUT I question the premise that "just because we could have think of a way to do something means that it was at all possible." Ultimately I totally get where they’re coming from. It makes complete sense from the standpoint of most software coming from a “we’re already doing this, let’s do it better” approach. BUT I question the premise that “just because we could have think of a way to do something means that it was at all possible.”

]]> By: Mike Cohn http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-35847 Mike Cohn Fri, 03 Apr 2009 22:46:30 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-35847 Hi Amber-- Channeling Tom and Kai, I will say that the user's true goal is to "connect information" and that inserting a hyperlink is a mechanism of achieving that goal. The information could have been connected in the pre-computer days with a paper clip and a copy. I tried a couple of suggestions along these lines with them such as that emailing a document to someone instantly is very different from printing it and mailing it. They weren't buying that as an example of new functionality. Hi Amber–
Channeling Tom and Kai, I will say that the user’s true goal is to “connect information” and that inserting a hyperlink is a mechanism of achieving that goal. The information could have been connected in the pre-computer days with a paper clip and a copy.

I tried a couple of suggestions along these lines with them such as that emailing a document to someone instantly is very different from printing it and mailing it. They weren’t buying that as an example of new functionality.

]]> By: Amber http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-35818 Amber Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:36:09 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-35818 My best answer to this question is "inserting a hyperlink". I realize that there are arguments against this. Of course, you can always write a url down on paper. You can also give directions to go look up the information in a library. You can also recopy all of the hyperlink's information in your own paper. But fundamentally, none of those are the same. If someone is looking at an electronic document (ie. doc, pdf) AND is connected to the internet (ie. everyone), then what you are essentially dong is providing them a unique hook into more information. The hook is instantaneous, requires no effort on their part and is optional. Pencil and paper can't do that. My best answer to this question is “inserting a hyperlink”.

I realize that there are arguments against this. Of course, you can always write a url down on paper. You can also give directions to go look up the information in a library. You can also recopy all of the hyperlink’s information in your own paper.

But fundamentally, none of those are the same. If someone is looking at an electronic document (ie. doc, pdf) AND is connected to the internet (ie. everyone), then what you are essentially dong is providing them a unique hook into more information. The hook is instantaneous, requires no effort on their part and is optional. Pencil and paper can’t do that.

]]> By: Chuck Durfee http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-31169 Chuck Durfee Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:09:57 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-31169 The closest thing I came up with was the ability to change text formatting. I think it would be the most expensive and time-consuming to duplicate with pre-computing technology. I can say it was the most exciting printing feature we had on our first computer. We made lots of signs with Print Shop, and spend lots of time playing with font choices and how they changed the tone of our signs. And, while you could technically have a monk rewrite text in a different style (i.e., "font"), the return on investment would be extremely poor. Thank you. This was a very interesting thought exercise. The closest thing I came up with was the ability to change text formatting. I think it would be the most expensive and time-consuming to duplicate with pre-computing technology.

I can say it was the most exciting printing feature we had on our first computer. We made lots of signs with Print Shop, and spend lots of time playing with font choices and how they changed the tone of our signs.

And, while you could technically have a monk rewrite text in a different style (i.e., “font”), the return on investment would be extremely poor.

Thank you. This was a very interesting thought exercise.

]]> By: GettingAgile.com » Blog Archive » A Requirements Challenge http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-31058 GettingAgile.com » Blog Archive » A Requirements Challenge Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:41:23 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-31058 [...] Mike Cohn brings a challenge to his readers that was initiated to him by Tom and Kai Gilb. See if you are able to answer the challenge in this article. [...] [...] Mike Cohn brings a challenge to his readers that was initiated to him by Tom and Kai Gilb. See if you are able to answer the challenge in this article. [...]

]]> By: Chris Sterling http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/a-requirements-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-31057 Chris Sterling Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:38:36 +0000 http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/?p=77#comment-31057 Good day Mike, Thank you for opening my mind up to this concept. It solidifies some ideas that I have been carrying for some time into something more concrete and coachable. Of course, since it was initiated by Tom and Kai Gilb I thank them, as well. The user story template of "As a I want to so that <i>" points towards the concept, in my opinion. By identifying the "so that" clause we are able to understand how it benefits (improves quality of function) to the user. Many people and teams have difficulty thinking in this manner and give up on the "so that" clause too quickly without understanding how that changes their implementation downstream. While coaching I have focused on getting development team members and Product Owners to start discussing their user stories in a manner that discusses why the user story is a benefit over something done before. It was always a problem for me when they weren't able to because I saw that they were then going to implement something without understanding how it brings more quality to the user's experience. Thus, they will just develop a feature that meets the function explained and not drive out a solution to the current quality issue trying to be resolved. If I always think about creating something "new" it causes me to think in terms of the function rather than the quality problem. Focusing on quality will allow us to see value in smaller chunks and therefore enable business to identify shorter cycles for delivery to their customers, I think? Would like to hear more from Tom and Kai and I will be reading more on their site in the near future. Thanks again for the great discussion on a helpful concept. Good day Mike,

Thank you for opening my mind up to this concept. It solidifies some ideas that I have been carrying for some time into something more concrete and coachable. Of course, since it was initiated by Tom and Kai Gilb I thank them, as well.

The user story template of “As a I want to so that ” points towards the concept, in my opinion. By identifying the “so that” clause we are able to understand how it benefits (improves quality of function) to the user. Many people and teams have difficulty thinking in this manner and give up on the “so that” clause too quickly without understanding how that changes their implementation downstream.

While coaching I have focused on getting development team members and Product Owners to start discussing their user stories in a manner that discusses why the user story is a benefit over something done before. It was always a problem for me when they weren’t able to because I saw that they were then going to implement something without understanding how it brings more quality to the user’s experience. Thus, they will just develop a feature that meets the function explained and not drive out a solution to the current quality issue trying to be resolved.

If I always think about creating something “new” it causes me to think in terms of the function rather than the quality problem. Focusing on quality will allow us to see value in smaller chunks and therefore enable business to identify shorter cycles for delivery to their customers, I think?

Would like to hear more from Tom and Kai and I will be reading more on their site in the near future. Thanks again for the great discussion on a helpful concept.

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